04/08/2023 - We chatted to the directors of the film following a drag performer who tries to put his life back together after a brutal attack, fresh off their multiple wins at the Canadian festival

Directors Ng Choon Ping (right) and Sam H Freeman (© agilefemme)

Awarded for best direction and for the Outstanding Performance by Nathan Stewart-Jarrett at Montreal’s Fantasia after having world-premiered in Berlinale's Panorama, Sam H Freeman and Ng Choon Ping's Femme [+see also:
film review
trailer
interview: Sam H Freeman, Ng Choon Ping
film profile] continues to seduce the audience with its story of drag performer Aphrodite Banks, aka Jules, trying to put his life back together after a brutal attack. 

Cineuropa: Your film has become a part of the conversation surrounding drag that is unfolding today, especially in the US. What kind of discussions is it provoking?
Sam H Freeman: Many queer people feel it’s stepping outside of this box we are often pushed into. It’s interesting because yes, it’s a dark film, but people say: “It’s very violent.” And you go: “Is it?” 

There is emotional violence and at the beginning something happens to Jules, but in terms of the actual violence, it’s quite minimal. Especially if you compare it to the work of Nicolas Winding Refn or Good Time, which was a big inspiration, or even classic Scorsese or Tarantino. Femme doesn’t go anywhere near that. But people seem to think it’s violent and when you quiz them about it, they add: “Well, for a queer film.” So are we being measured to a different standard because we have gay characters? If it was about straight men, no one would be commenting on the violence. 

Ng Choon Ping: The ambition is to break out of the usual queer cinema tropes. To really break into the mainstream with a revenge thriller, with an action thriller, with something we are often shut out of. There seems to be a double standard in terms of what a straight story is and what a queer story is. I guess we are fighting these expectations. 

What I loved is that once you hear “revenge thriller,” you think you know where it will go. You think about I Spit on Your Grave. But you make it so complex.
NCP: We are so glad you had that experience. We wanted to feel the vulnerability of these people. 

SHF: We were never interested in stories about heroes and villains, good and evil. It’s not the way the world works. It was interesting to move into an area where the morality of it feels murky. We tried to make a very human film, include some humour and make sure none of the characters are simple. Everyone is balanced out in their humanity. 

I feel that people are afraid of sex on the screen, of lust. They are afraid of making it complicated, and yet you almost play with this concept of forbidden love.
SHF: When we were writing, we spoke to a couple of psychologists, because we wanted to push that element. There can be hatred, but the lust that comes with it can be very real, too. This whole tension is a very important part of the internal drama. 

NCP: We were also interested in the connection between power and feeling sexy. Jules is robbed of his power at the start of the film, but as he is moving forward, he is getting it back. This can be quite recognisable to people, because these two things feed off each other. 

Do you see it as a nocturnal story? They are always hiding away in the dark. When all of a sudden you show them having breakfast, it felt shocking to me!
SHF: We had constant night shoots and we wanted to make sure this moment felt like a breath of fresh air. Coming back to our references, these films tend to happen at night. It’s the time for dark deeds, for illicit relationships. When something significant changes, we see the sun for the first time. It gives you a moment to say: “Can I finally relax?” 

NCP: This minute of normality comes as a shock, but it’s still filled with tension. We shot in the summer, which meant that night was actually a precious resource. To protect that moment of daylight, we had to surround it with darkness and it came at a cost to the shooting schedule. People would ask: “What about this scene? Could that take place during the day?” No! 

You want to relax because there is so much pretending, so much performing here. How did you talk to your actors about it?
SHF: We would always talk about drag. Not just Jules being a drag queen – everyone is performing a version of themselves. When someone finally drops the performance, shows vulnerability, it’s a big deal. 

NCP: As we are talking about it now, it becomes clear there is this odd balance at play. In our central relationship, the more “drag” one of them puts on, the more the other relaxes. He allows himself to feel more. 

Coming back to that line you mentioned, it being “violent for a queer film,” where you worried about showing another attack on a queer person?
SHF: Femme is about power and agency. It starts with an attack, but instead of making a film about trauma, we made one about someone reclaiming their power. There is a real fear we are responding to. It’s not gratuitous, it’s not done for entertainment. It’s about exploring why these things happen, hopefully in a way that’s nuanced. 

Would you do that again? Play with such serious subjects through genre?
SHF: I don’t think we are going out of our way to see what will be the next “edgy” topic. This one felt true to us. But genre is definitely something we feel passionate about. As queer storytellers, we didn’t have the same access to genre storytelling as maybe our straight counterparts. 

NCP: I think that genre allowed us, in this particular case, to put a new spin on this tale of trauma. That’s what’s so bewitching about working within that space. It’s a story that needs to be told: not a story about violence, but about how we actively and personally own the action that comes out of it.

SHF: If someone was to ask if we need another film where a queer person is being attacked, I would respond: “Are there other films when it’s not just some event that inspires the protagonist?” Quite often, these things happen on the side and some cop comes to investigate. Here, we follow Jules, turning him into an avenging antihero. I haven’t seen that before.